Then you are left with only magic - a God beginning from nothing, or with no beginning at all.
And if true, Why don't we see cereal boxes appearing from nothing? Or maybe vanilla ice cream? Since, God or anything else without beginning has never been observed, why would you adopt this as something logical?
Believing in God is ultimately belief in nothing more than make-believe.
Anders Andersen
JoinedPosts by Anders Andersen
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Beliefs About What Caused the Universe
by Perry inthe universe can be observed to be expanding.. an expanding universe must have had a beginning.
whatever begins to exist had a cause.
therefore the universe had a cause.
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Anders Andersen
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160
Beliefs About What Caused the Universe
by Perry inthe universe can be observed to be expanding.. an expanding universe must have had a beginning.
whatever begins to exist had a cause.
therefore the universe had a cause.
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Anders Andersen
Perry, even for those who follow you in your logic that the universe must be caused by some Cause, or Agent even....there is no reason to go from there to Bible God. Or Wodan. Or Zeus. Or any of the other mythical Gods that are imagined to be this Agent that caused the universe in some way.
I could write a book claiming that I am that Agent. And then refuse to prove it like your God does. Would anyone believe me? Why? Why not?
Do you believe the claim that Joseph Smith received a Holy Text from an angel? Why, or why not?
Is there any difference between his claims and the Bronze Age tribal guys' claims? Why, or why not?
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Outstanding new book out today for you atheists, agnostics, humanists, naturalists and free thinkers
by Cornbread ini just got back from the bookstore and i can't wait to sink into it based on all the reviews and press it has been getting.
it's called the big picture - on the origin of life, meaning, and the universe itself by sean carroll.. “weaving the threads of astronomy, physics, chemistry, biology, and philosophy into a seamless narrative tapestry, sean carroll enthralls us with what we’ve figured out in the universe and humbles us with what we don’t yet understand.
yet in the end, it’s the meaning of it all that feeds your soul of curiosity.” —neil degrasse tyson, host of cosmos: a spacetime odyssey*publishers weekly #1 most anticipated science book of spring 2016*"already internationally acclaimed for his elegant, lucid writing on the most challenging notions in modern physics, sean carroll is emerging as one of the greatest humanist thinkers of his generation as he brings his extraordinary intellect to bear not only on higgs bosons and extra dimensions but now also on our deepest personal questions.
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Anders Andersen
Thanks, added to my reading list -
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My brother died last night
by LisaRose ini found out this morning that my brother died last night, he was also an ex jw, 73 years old and died of heart disease and kidney failure.
it was not totally unexpected, as he had been in poor health, but it's a blow, especially as i just lost another brother two years ago.
there were six of us, now only four.
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Anders Andersen
Sorry to hear that. My condolences. -
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My letter to Bethel about the flood
by Cornbread ini've decided to go full public with a new username on this forum.
it's been almost a decade since i've been out and i don't care at this point who knows.
that being said, here's a letter that i'm mailing to bethel.
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Anders Andersen
@Bohm:
BoC is explaining how ridiculous it is to think these ice cores are not as old as scientists say. It would really mean Jehovah is a trickster God who deceives humanity on purpose by planting false evidence. Makes no sense.
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85
My letter to Bethel about the flood
by Cornbread ini've decided to go full public with a new username on this forum.
it's been almost a decade since i've been out and i don't care at this point who knows.
that being said, here's a letter that i'm mailing to bethel.
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Anders Andersen
Another dating methods that disproves a worldwide flood: dendrochronology. Matching patterns in tree rings have made it possible to construct a tree ring database up to 11.000 years back for some regions.
Guess those tree just kept growing while under water for a year.
Or varve dating...the layers deposited in lakes. Lake Suigetsu shows no signs of a global deluge in the last 52000 years, or we would have heard about it.
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My letter to Bethel about the flood
by Cornbread ini've decided to go full public with a new username on this forum.
it's been almost a decade since i've been out and i don't care at this point who knows.
that being said, here's a letter that i'm mailing to bethel.
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Anders Andersen
believing archeologists estimates in years based pn carbon dating would be like believing the overlapping generation teaching
Just imagine every religious book on the planet teaching the overlapping generations. And any religious leader (including non-JudeoChristian) teaching it. And any honest non religious scholar on a relevant subject (e.g theology) would confirm the overlapping generations as well.
That's what you are dismissing when thoughtlessly dismissing dating methods.
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Speaking of the Flood... Does the Earth Move?
by kepler injust read over the long thread about a letter to hq regarding noah's flood.
reminded of another literal litmus test.
within 7 years of beginning telescopic observations of the heavens, galileo was called to judgment by the inquisition in 1616. disputes in this case abound, but the biblical arguments for which galileo was tried and condemned "revolved" around i chronicles 16:30, psalms 93:1, 96:10, 104.5 and ecclesiastes 1:5, summarized by "the world is established; it shall never be moved.
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Anders Andersen
Yeah well...If a parable question (Who is really the faithful and discreet slave?) must be read as a literal fact, and the next sentence (...if that evil slave...) is clearly figurative, anything goes.
Fact is that never did the Bible show us anything scientific correct.
While science progressed, interpretations of Bible myth were changed to support scientific discoveries so religious people didn't look too stupid (some do anyway).
Looking back we can say: look, the Bible already said so. But the Bible never said it clear enough to state the facts correctly before the scientific discovery of such facts.
Just like prophecies can only be matched to a fullfilment after the supposedly predicted event.
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My letter to Bethel about the flood
by Cornbread ini've decided to go full public with a new username on this forum.
it's been almost a decade since i've been out and i don't care at this point who knows.
that being said, here's a letter that i'm mailing to bethel.
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Anders Andersen
There are so many dating methods and they are all used to confirm (or not) the validity of the other methods...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dating_methodologies_in_archaeology?wprov=sfla1
I'm quite sure everyone who shouts something about carbon dating rocks to millions of years old shows his own lack of knowledge on that subject, and is automatically disqualified on the topic. Especially when they try to dismiss just a single method with no valid theory or evidence on why that method is flawed, or how the other methods are wrong as well.
Why do I say that? Carbon dating is used on organic materials (not rocks) up to 60.000 (not millions) years old. If you can't get these basic facts correct, your understanding of the topic is failing big time.
(Look up the Dunning-Kruger effect)
Guess what: thousands of scientists eager to make a breakthrough discovery by proving existing methods wrong work their whole lives on refining these methods. They can be wrong, sure. But what is more likely: after years of research and verification by other researchers the methods they come up with somewhat work? Or you and me, without any knowledge, truly know the methods wrong from behind our kitchen table?
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160
Beliefs About What Caused the Universe
by Perry inthe universe can be observed to be expanding.. an expanding universe must have had a beginning.
whatever begins to exist had a cause.
therefore the universe had a cause.
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Anders Andersen
Perry: "We can see the forest is on fire. Every forest fire has an Ignitor. What is the Ignitor for this forest fire?"
Most sensible people: "We don't know yet, but there are several things we can think of: lightning, a camp fire, sun rays through a looking glass, a hot car exhaust, heat-producing bacteria...and probably processes we dont even know about now. Let's try and find out."
Perry: "It must be Prometheus because it says so in this cool ancient story I like!"
Some people need zero evidence to jump from a question to a very specific answer. Even when their answer isn't very logical at all. Or when all possible answers are far beyond our realm and current comprehension.
There is no arguing with (or against) that.